tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post3390808296650535579..comments2024-01-26T10:20:37.836+00:00Comments on Diary of a Goldfish: Why are women typically more religious than men?The Goldfishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-32255098092789425502013-01-03T18:11:19.759+00:002013-01-03T18:11:19.759+00:00Thanks Janet,
This is a good point. It's stil...Thanks Janet,<br /><br />This is a good point. It's still quite remarkable how many places and activities where it is rare to see women on their own. I remember a few months back reading about a sort of on-line dating service where business women could meet other women to <i>eat</i> with whilst in new cities and so forth. And yes, in seems remarkable, but even in 2013, a woman walking alone into a pub is going to attract attention and quite possibly harassment...The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-75418995575901931642013-01-03T12:27:15.481+00:002013-01-03T12:27:15.481+00:00I too heard that edition of The Infinite Monkey Ca...I too heard that edition of The Infinite Monkey Cage and I too was, surprisingly for me, rather taken with the Dean.<br /><br />I thought that the suggestion that women were biologically more religious than men a bit odd. Perhaps it was, as they said, they were all men and men find logical thought difficult.<br /><br />In my opinion the reason that more women than men in our society are religious is that it is still the case that there are less welcoming opportunities for women, especially lone women, to socialise outside the home. We don't pop into pubs on our own much, are less interested in football. It's quite socially acceptable for women to go to church on their own.<br /><br />(Some people may need to be reminded that just because it's not illegal for us to go to pubs alone etc, we still don't feel so welcome there.)<br /><br />JanetAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-42805306839115750232013-01-02T14:21:33.006+00:002013-01-02T14:21:33.006+00:00Chordatesrock,
I don't think Prof. Jones was ...Chordatesrock,<br /><br />I don't think Prof. Jones was arguing that autistic folk were inferior, because he was trying to reduce religion to something biological. So in a back-to-front way, he was almost suggesting that autistic people are more rational, not having this biological quirk that makes them prone to irrational religious belief, and men are generally more rational than women.<br /><br />I think he talked about the Y chromosome as an affliction in order to tone down the implication that men were more sensible than women. But frankly, I think he made a mess of it in every conceivable direction! The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-2212353878707594092013-01-02T00:33:11.409+00:002013-01-02T00:33:11.409+00:00Did I read the article correctly? It sounds like t...Did I read the article correctly? It sounds like they made the argument that autistic people are inferior because they are more like men, which sounds both extremely sexist and ableist. Men aren't inferior and autistic people aren't inferior.<br /><br />This reminds me of an article wherein the author explained that the reason why all feminists are ugly and stupid is because they're autistic. I'm having trouble figuring out whether that's more offensive to feminists or to people with autism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1258989443267865172012-12-29T20:51:23.014+00:002012-12-29T20:51:23.014+00:00Louna - yes, they're jokes. And yes, women are...Louna - yes, they're jokes. And yes, women are more likely to suffer from chronic illnesses. As well as the conditions Matthew mentions (and others) which are more prevalent among women, women are more physically vulnerable to contracting HIV and in the developing world, there are many chronic conditions relating to the event and aftermath of childbirth (particularly when girls give birth before they are fully developed) which are either prevented or easily fixed in the developed world. <br /><br />So in the UK, women are somewhat more likely to have chronic illness, but elsewhere in the world, although there are men with chronic illnesses (and some chronic illnesses are almost exclusive to men), women are much more likely to be in this position.The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-81618012870087727272012-12-29T15:55:24.339+00:002012-12-29T15:55:24.339+00:00In my own experience it's impossible to genera...In my own experience it's impossible to generalise about autistic people and religion. Yes, there are some people with Asperger-type autism who are convinced atheists, but many (more) non-autistic people as well. Many people with autism are religious, and many do find the ritual comforting but that is not the only reason people are religious.<br /><br />I'm not sure why women are more likely to be religious, but I'm guessing this is Jones's way of invalidating it by making it part of people's biology - that people believe because they are programmed to, so it's only to be expected. It doesn't explain why people believe very different things depending on which environment they were brought up in, or why people choose to believe differently or not at all. My opinion is that Jones's kind of scientific atheism is a belief system in itself, not a rational (and therefore more valid) answer to belief. The presumption "if we can't see or measure it, we can assume it's not there", is not the matter of certainty they believe it is.<br /><br />As for chronic illness, there are a number of them that women are much more prone to than men, but there is a substantial minority of male sufferers (MS, ME, lupus, EDS to name a few). I know people with several of these who are religious, and some who are atheists, male and female.Matthew Smithhttp://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-20850609095209639662012-12-29T11:54:28.447+00:002012-12-29T11:54:28.447+00:00I like your thoughts (the dresses, Kate Middleton ...I like your thoughts (the dresses, Kate Middleton and baking arguments are jokes, aren't they?). I'm just wondering about the chronic illness thing. Is it true that chronic illness is more prevalent in women?Lounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11031075401203936622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-32128804148180481232012-12-28T22:26:28.485+00:002012-12-28T22:26:28.485+00:00Thanks Matthew and Liam,
As far as I know, the on...Thanks Matthew and Liam,<br /><br />As far as I know, the only studies into autism and religiosity have taken place using subjects in the US and Canada, where Christianity (in particular) tends to be a much more extroverted business. Worship often involves spontaneous public professions of faith, religion is talked about all the time and so forth, and many neurotypical folks who are just a bit introverted, who may have religious passions but wish to keep such things to themselves or reserved for quiet discussion and contemplation, feel completely out of place. <br /><br />(Honestly, there's a American evangelical church at the end of my folks' garden that serves the nearby US airbase, and I would not survive one of their Sunday services - I have no idea how typical it is, but from the other side of a thick wall, I know it involves a very great deal of shouting (really aggressive shouting), folks randomly calling out, many rounds of applause (like every few minutes) as well as the singing. Way too much stimulation!)<br /><br />There's also the fact that lots of disabled people in the West are put off religion by the "Pray and be healed" mentality held by some religious people (a very small minority, but they tend to be a noisy bunch!).<br /><br />And there's the fact that autistic people tend - not always, but often - to find their interests in nerdy subjects, and nerdy communities tend to be religiously skeptical (if not sometimes tyrannically atheistic).<br /> <br />So honestly, I think that, on the face of it, there are many possible non-biological explanations for the trend of autistic people not to be so religious. It would be far more interesting if they'd studied this globally, but they haven't yet.<br /><br />The idea that autistic people can't be spiritual is ridiculous. But I think maybe it's a bit like if the folk from the evangelical church attended a service at the Church of England village church - they might not recognise what they saw as something <i>just</i> as sincere and spiritual as their own service, but much quieter, more orderly and less dramatic. People sometimes look at difference and instead see absence.The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-32018661067761427112012-12-28T22:02:18.250+00:002012-12-28T22:02:18.250+00:00My girlfriend has just pointed out that men are mo...My girlfriend has just pointed out that men are more likely to be autistic and if men are also less likely to be religious then it will just follow that autistic people are less likely to be religious than nonautistic people simply *because* most autistic people are male.AutistLiamhttps://twitter.com/AutistLiamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-56625982313798795182012-12-28T21:54:53.220+00:002012-12-28T21:54:53.220+00:00I'd also like to see some proof for the assert...I'd also like to see some proof for the assertion that autistic people are less likely to be religious. In my experience, autistic people can be just as religious or areligious as anyone else but we often have different *motivations* - for example many autistic Jews and Muslims like the comfort of familiar daily rituals, many otherwise nonverbal autistics can recite prayers or sing hymms, some autistic people find older people easier to talk to and religious institutions are a place where intergenerational mixing is possible, many organised religions provide oppurtunities for learning and practicing new skills and for volunteer work that is quiet and repetitive, meditation is practised by many autistics some I know subsequently became Buddhists etc etc<br /><br />I suspect the idea that autistic people are more likely to be atheists comes from the idea that we are super-rational and the idea that theism is always irrational. <br /><br />Your post is great and I share your suspicision of leaping from "more women have this trait than men!" to "Clearly it has something to do with chromosomes / biology!" but I keep encountering the "all autistics are athiests" trope and it's massively inaccurate and annoying.AutistLiamhttps://twitter.com/AutistLiamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-14976081231534283732012-12-28T21:41:55.538+00:002012-12-28T21:41:55.538+00:00I forgot to say, sorry about commenting as anonymo...I forgot to say, sorry about commenting as anonymous but blogger doesn't like my iPad, I can only comment as anonymous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-20191570260575313212012-12-28T21:39:39.807+00:002012-12-28T21:39:39.807+00:00I doubt this has anything to do with gender or sex...I doubt this has anything to do with gender or sex, not everything is biology, I'm sure like most things about social roles defined by gender it's more about society than biology.<br /><br />I'm autistic and religious, I don't think we are less or more religious than non-autistic, I have seen this connected to theories that I dislike about autism, that we have a male-brain and are highly logical so we must be unable to be spiritual, nothing about that is true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com