tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post8020071833912996441..comments2024-01-26T10:20:37.836+00:00Comments on Diary of a Goldfish: The Goldfish Treatise on Marriage #1The Goldfishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-30077190060801483882007-07-28T10:09:00.000+01:002007-07-28T10:09:00.000+01:00Sage, I don't think there's anything shameful in d...Sage, I don't think there's anything shameful in doing "traditional" things and fitting the norm, as long as you do it because it's what you want to do rather than because you feel you <I>should</I> do it.<BR/><BR/>Just because man + woman + a couple of kids is a "stereotypical" family unit, that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.<BR/><BR/>You shouldn't feel obliged to fit in the box, but by the same token you shouldn't feel obliged to push the boundaries.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11639094548415759560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-36040477940671282972007-07-27T19:18:00.000+01:002007-07-27T19:18:00.000+01:00Continuting from my comment above...just another t...Continuting from my comment above...just another two pennorthworth.... Before the Civil Partnership came about, we used to decline to go to any weddings as a point of principal (why should we attend a legal ceremony when the law refused to recognise our partnership). It is quite sad that it led to us losing a number of friends because of this(tho we saved a fortune on wedding presents). or else they were just shifty and embarrassed about it.<BR/>anneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-5843010265246201732007-07-27T19:12:00.000+01:002007-07-27T19:12:00.000+01:00Very interesting. Just an observation on the subje...Very interesting. Just an observation on the subject of gay "marrigaes" ..ok, ok, I know its "civil partnership". My female partner and I have been together happily for 17 years & have 3 children. Since the introduction of the civil partnership, nearly everyone we know (including our families) have been mithering us about when we are going to do it. So, now feeling the pressure many heerosexuals have felt for years. But still very unsure.<BR/>Eagerly awaiting your nex post, Golfish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-78698067876643308462007-07-27T15:52:00.000+01:002007-07-27T15:52:00.000+01:00Thanks everyone. I hope I'm going to cover most of...Thanks everyone. I hope I'm going to cover most of the points raised here in the second post. :-)The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-41794769892419193382007-07-27T13:07:00.000+01:002007-07-27T13:07:00.000+01:00On Fluttertongue's comment above, my parent's rela...On Fluttertongue's comment above, my parent's relationship ruined me, not because they divorced, but because it was a beautifully fulfilling relationship for both of them. It was too perfect to copy. <BR/><BR/>And what always really interests me about cultural brainwashing, is the people who seem to avoid it completely. How do they do that? I'm able to do it in several arenas, but I do get caught up in the stereotypical relationship dynamic despite my upbringing. <BR/><BR/>And what happened with my dad? He and my mom did everything equally around the house and outside of it too. He was brave enough to marry a woman getting a PhD in physics in the 1950s. Where do people get that willingness to ignore convention? And, more importantly, can it be taught to my guy and kids who are all outstandingly conservative and traditional?Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14481252201307998355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-61737409764015896622007-07-26T12:07:00.000+01:002007-07-26T12:07:00.000+01:00I'm having an ongoing discussion with my boyfriend...I'm having an ongoing discussion with my boyfriend about marriage: he is all in favour - I happen to know of 0 marriages that are happy or fulfilling to either party. This is because feminism has evolved and marriage has not. Traditional women's roles are not valued by either men or women and yet they still have to be performed and are in fact the very glue of the coninutation of the species: we happily give our chilren away to poorly paid nannies while we make a vast amount of money for a multinational corperation. Funnily enough I know a lot of men who are desperate to be fathers yet not a lot of women who are desperate to be mothers or to be married. <BR/>What cheers me is that people were queueing up to be married when gay marriages became legal. Perhaps if the right to marriage was taken away we'd have a rethink about its values.fluttertonguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06503797774392650926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-14514540443696879272007-07-26T08:56:00.000+01:002007-07-26T08:56:00.000+01:00Very interesting post and in principle I agree to ...Very interesting post and in principle I agree to everything you have said. I have indeed been to weddings very much like the one you have described. But just to let you know that there is hope:<BR/>When my husband and I got married we had to agree about our future name(s). We decided in favour of having the same name instead of keeping our maiden names (is it "maiden name" for a man as well??!) We put both of our names in a cup and threw dices to find out who was the one to pick our name. It was me and I picked my husbands name. We felt that was very democratic. <BR/>In Germany we have a registered marriage and and optional church wedding. We decided in favour of having both for the simple reason that at the register no one could be bothered to ask us if we really love each other and are ready to stand in for each other, come what may. That's what they do at church.<BR/>I was not led to the altar by my father as I refused to be handed over by my dad to my husband. I got married at the age of 33 and already had successfully mastered living on my own for years and years. Pretending that my dad has been taken care of me and now expected my husband to do the same would just have been rediculous. We as a couple walked down the aisle together.<BR/>My husband and I both held a speech at our reception. He was speaking, I was doing it in sign language. None of us had a hangover, but both of us had cought a terrible cold. <BR/>No fixed seating, except for the family table. Everyone sat down where they could find an empty chair. No quarrels!<BR/>And it wasn't just us trying to be different. Most of my friends got married in avery similar way. <BR/><BR/>Looking foreward to part II of that post!BloggingMonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767164739217269193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-72229928976906060202007-07-26T00:06:00.000+01:002007-07-26T00:06:00.000+01:00@Mary:damn, I knew there was something I'd forgott...@Mary:<BR/>damn, I <STRONG>knew</STRONG> there was something I'd forgotten when I trod on that bison this week. I'd best go and get the ceremonial headdress down from the loft...<BR/><BR/>@Goldfish:<BR/>obviously, this post made me reflect a little on marriage and wedding days (<A HREF="http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/200707/its-a-bad-song-for-a-white-wedding/" REL="nofollow">although I've been doing that somewhat anyway</A>), but I hadn't particularly realised that it was <EM>that</EM> unusual for me to co-plan the wedding with my wife, choosing the venue together, the menu together, the vows together, choosing one reading each, choosing who was sitting where, writing out wedding cards and so on. Together, together, together. She obviously chose the brides and bridesmaids outfits, but I chose the groom/best man/usher ones. I guess the only thing specifically 'ours' that was solely 'hers' was choosing the flowers: but I thought I'd better let her have something - after all, I was the one who had wanted the big wedding in the first place (she would have been happy to do the 'going away on holiday marriage'.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and my wife made a speech too (father of the bride, groom, best man, little break, bride) - although I admit I was aware that that was unusual.<BR/><BR/>But then again, it's probably not that common for men to wear an engagement ring either, is it? And we both had one of them as well (although mine isn't at all <EM>girly</EM> in case you're wondering)<BR/><BR/>But then I guess we'd always assumed we were in it <STRONG>together</STRONG>: does that make us liberated modern people, or both just strong minded individuals with our own wills who are still capable of compromise?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-39257688036532644362007-07-25T23:00:00.000+01:002007-07-25T23:00:00.000+01:00As one who has already been married and divorced o...As one who has already been married and divorced once, I'm very much looking forward to the second part of this.<BR/><BR/>My current two penn'orth is that, culturally, humans are rather fond of rites and celebrations for this and that and the other. Birth. Burial. Coming of age. Housewarming parties. Killing your first bison. Whatever. I'm not convinced that such rites are an entirely bad thing.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11639094548415759560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-71230112694904643172007-07-25T21:42:00.000+01:002007-07-25T21:42:00.000+01:00I guess it won't help to suggest gay marriages for...I guess it won't help to suggest gay marriages for everyone as 1) they're cheaper since most relatives won't show up and 2) they can be as small as you want them to be and 3) They start your very first big traditional fights so if you make it to the ceremony you have already made some sort of commitment.Elizabeth McClunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03627373214555333537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-89431365618171550932007-07-25T20:12:00.000+01:002007-07-25T20:12:00.000+01:00Great Essay, Goldfish! I came your way via Sage's ...Great Essay, Goldfish! <BR/><BR/>I came your way via Sage's site. <BR/><BR/>The funny thing about marriage is women are told through media and other avenues that we should be desperate to "make our guy commit" ect.. but in reality, it's men who are benefiting from it. Odd, indeed. I've searched the internet and bookstores for sites about women who are anti-marriage, their psychology and what not. Yet, all I can find are sites/books about men who are afraid to commit! Go figure!<BR/><BR/>I've written a couple of posts about my distaste for marriage...<BR/><BR/>http://takinginchesgivingmiles.blogspot.com/2007/03/i-dont-care-about-your-marriage-post.html<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>http://takinginchesgivingmiles.blogspot.com/2007/01/your-favorite-femme-bot-examines.html<BR/><BR/>Cheers! ~Sally SunshineSallySunshinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17417077309361828475noreply@blogger.com