tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post116014336911775114..comments2024-01-26T10:20:37.836+00:00Comments on Diary of a Goldfish: Ten Points about T4The Goldfishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160402220046894382006-10-09T14:57:00.000+01:002006-10-09T14:57:00.000+01:00It was very suspicious for the Nazi regime to have...<I>It was very suspicious for the Nazi regime to have German people around talking in a language among themselves, that nobody else could understand.</I><BR/><BR/>That is so obvious now you've said it Bloggingmone, thanks for pointing this out. Especially in combination with the existance of the Jewish Deaf Schools...The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160339903808061192006-10-08T21:38:00.000+01:002006-10-08T21:38:00.000+01:00Goldfish, thanks for that post. You have mentioned...Goldfish, thanks for that post. You have mentioned in one of the comments that deaf people seemed to played a bit of a special role. That's true because deaf people are disabled, but - and to most of them that is more important - they also are a linguistic minority group. It was very suspicious for the Nazi regime to have German people around talking in a language among themselves, that nobody else could understand. <BR/>Secondly, the Jewish Deaf Schools in Germany were state of the art at that time and famous all over the world. The Jewish Deaf School of Berlin Weissensee was attended by Jewish Deaf children from all over the world. Being Jewish AND deaf, however, was about the worst that could happen. <BR/>As some of you may have read I have been working at a conference about the Deaf/Jewish Holocaust in August and there were so many impressive stories told by survivors either deaf or jewish and deaf. For us non-deaf and non-jewish weople working there it was a four days fight against tears, at least most of the time.BloggingMonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767164739217269193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160319382484532522006-10-08T15:56:00.000+01:002006-10-08T15:56:00.000+01:00at the holocaust museum in DC, the first half of t...at the holocaust museum in DC, the first half of the top floor (you start there and go down) ends with a bed used at one of hospitals, i think ravensbruck. it looks a little old, but could have just as easily been in any other state mental institution in the world at the time...white painted iron frame, with leather restraints. <BR/><BR/>without fail, that's where i start to cry.benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082138040950123534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160315833964440952006-10-08T14:57:00.000+01:002006-10-08T14:57:00.000+01:00That's truly shocking to me, Mary. I guess I've no...That's truly shocking to me, Mary. I guess I've not come across that because we don't want children - it has occurred to me that folks may assume this is because I am ill. <BR/><BR/>Of course, because I don't want children, the idea of having children whilst being ill is especially scary, but people do do it and are okay. I was speaking with a young mother with ME recently (in Stowmarket, actually) who had effectively trained her two and four year olds to have "quiet times" during the day so that mother could rest - they weren't being forced into bizarre sleep patterns or anything like that, so it would have done them no harm at all. The four year old was even able to help out in simple and fun ways; I mean, no child should have the responsibility of serious <I>care</I> thrust upon them, but all children like to feel needed. Plus it saves a lot of grief when they get to an age where they've left home but bring home their laundry for you to do because they can't work a washing machine. ;-)<BR/><BR/>I ought to write something about this genetics thing. It really pisses me off, because it is so very, very illogical.The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160314236778113952006-10-08T14:30:00.000+01:002006-10-08T14:30:00.000+01:00The viewpoint of Attila's classmate isn't all that...The viewpoint of Attila's classmate isn't all that unusual.<BR/><BR/>When I became ill I had the following, absolutely serious conversation with someone who had known me "before" (and who I now no longer speak to):<BR/><BR/>THEM: So much for you wanting a family then?<BR/>ME: Eh?<BR/>THEM: Well, you're not going to have kids now, are you?<BR/>ME: Not right this minute, but once I'm with a long-term partner and recovered enough to keep up with a child, I don't see why not.<BR/>THEM: That's so irresponsible.<BR/>ME: Eh?<BR/>THEM: Well, would you like it if your kid was as ill as you are? In as much pain as you? As restricted as you?<BR/>ME: But my illness isn't hereditary. And if my kid was disabled, I'd have as much chance of helping them as anyone else.<BR/>THEM: But you're ill, so there's obviously something wrong with your genes that <I>let</I> you get ill. If you got pregnant, your kid would just be another burden on taxpayers like me. You've got a social responsibility to put a stop to it.<BR/><BR/>I gave up. I'm not irresponsible enough to have a child I can't afford and can't look after and "assume" that the state will both pay and care for it and me. But if my partner and I together work out that we can afford it (without handouts), and can manage it, then I won't have someone else saying "you can't do that! You're defective!"Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11639094548415759560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160312481596288702006-10-08T14:01:00.000+01:002006-10-08T14:01:00.000+01:00Thanks folks. :-)Yes, James, one does wonder. Had ...Thanks folks. :-)<BR/><BR/>Yes, James, one does wonder. Had they not started killing the crips, had they not learnt about gassing when lethal injections became too dear, would they have actually thought to exterminate the Jews? I mean, persecute and enslave, but if they'd had to shoot or kill <I>millions</I> by lethal injection, would they have considered that viable?<BR/><BR/>Keth, yes, I understand that was the case. But the word euthanasia was used in the context of the killing programme; these days it is inconceivable to imagine "euthanising" a person because they were deaf - hearing people might not wish to become deaf but it's hardly a fate worse than death. But the term was used. And yes, I believe about twice the number of people who were killed were sterilised.<BR/><BR/>I do get the impression that the Nazis had a particular downer on Deaf people - whenever this is spoken about, deafness seems to get special mention. An issue slightly confused in my mind because some people talk about "Deaf people and disabled people," whereas to me, deaf people are disabled, in my understanding of the term. I realise that's an issue of controversy, but until we have consensus it can be confusing. <BR/><BR/>Attila, that is shocking but people remain <I>incredibly</I> ignorant. Regardless of the massive moral question, the objective of ending disability by ellimination is totally hopeless. I hope the student learnt something from the response to their suggestion, anyway.The Goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15213378454070776331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160248148378304162006-10-07T20:09:00.000+01:002006-10-07T20:09:00.000+01:00Fabulous post!I'm taking a public speaking class, ...Fabulous post!<BR/><BR/>I'm taking a public speaking class, and our next assignment is a persuasive speech. In our last class, we had to announce the general purpose of our upcoming speech to the rest of the class to get feedback.<BR/><BR/>One student has decided to persuade the class that people with mental illnesses and disabilities should be forcibly sterilized.<BR/><BR/>My mind just freaking boggles....Attila the Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02158308703617226652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160220827415643492006-10-07T12:33:00.000+01:002006-10-07T12:33:00.000+01:00the T4 programme, if i remember correctly, wasn't ...the T4 programme, if i remember correctly, wasn't just about euthanasia. "See Hear", the deaf magazine programme produced by the BBC covered this a few years ago, looking at what happened to the deaf people in those countries in that era. Although some were killed under the T4 programme, many more were sterilised, particularly if they came from deaf families.<BR/><BR/>A thoroughly nasty and unpleasant time - one that everyone should be well educated on.<BR/><BR/>thanks for blogging about this.. <BR/><BR/>keth<BR/>xxkethryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02554372971928433781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10557263.post-1160175946874705622006-10-07T00:05:00.000+01:002006-10-07T00:05:00.000+01:00What is also interesting is that a lot of the tech...What is also interesting is that a lot of the techniques later used to kill Jews, such as gassing, were first tried and 'perfected' on disabled people. Without knowing this, it is impossible to understand the Holocaust, whose history should begin in 1933, not in 1940.James Medhursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15953493585646108206noreply@blogger.com